Being Church in a Post-Christian World

S1, E2: What Do We Mean by a Post-Christian World?

In this episode, Kendra and Edwin delve more deeply into what we mean by a “post-Christian world.” A post-Christian culture is one in which, not only does the church have less power or influence, but in which for a growing group of people the Christian faith, or any kind of religious outlook, is increasingly implausible or irrelevant. Kendra and Edwin discuss what this means, and where such post-Christian way of life comes from, by reflecting on the work of three cultural commentators. Charles Taylor is a Canadian philosopher whose book The Secular Age is generally seen as the analysis of Western secularization. Hartmut Rosa is a German sociologist whose books on Social Acceleration and Resonance give a detailed description of the dynamics of modern life and what these dynamics do to our ability to experience God. And the Dutch professor of secularization study Herman Paul wrote several books giving a unique analysis of the ways secularization shaped Dutch culture. Together, these three thinkers give us the concepts that will help us reflect on the conversations in future episodes.

S1, E1: Being Church in a Post-Christian World

In this first episode, Kendra Buckwalter Smith and Edwin Chr. van Driel introduce the concept of this podcast: stories from the Dutch church for the sake of the missional conversation in North America.
They discuss the nature of secularization in the Netherlands, the ways in which the Dutch church is a generation or two ahead of the North American church in terms of learning to live in a post-Christian world, and what we might learn from listening to stories about Dutch Christian communities. They give a sneak-peak of what we can expect in future episodes, and what they find inspiring about these conversations.

S1, E3: Secularization in the Netherlands: Exploring the Landscape

David Boogerd is a journalist working for Dutch public television and radio. Since 2019 he presents a weekly podcast about religion that has become highly popular. In this podcast, together with missiologist Stefan Paas, Boogerd interviews religious leaders, philosophers, psychologists, journalists, and politicians about secularization and its effect on Dutch society. With Boogerd we talk about the search for meaning and the lack of community. What have five years of interviews with both religious and completely areligious conversation partners taught him about life in a post-Christian society?
If you want to hear Boogerd and Paas in action, they interviewed in English the British historian Tom Holland, who after writing bestsellers about the Greeks, Romans, and Islam, turned his attention to Christianity. In his massive Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World Holland describes as a non-believer the impact Christianity had on the West, and on himself.
https://www.nporadio1.nl/podcasts/de-ongelooflijke-podcast/28385/22-tom-holland-over-hoe-het-christendom-het-westen-vormde

S1, E4: Being Church in Amsterdam

Rosaliene Israel is an ordained minister and was until January 1, 2025 the secretary-general of the Protestant Church in Amsterdam, overseeing twenty-five faith communities in the city. For a number of years she lived in and led a new monastic community located right at the center of the Red Light District in Amsterdam. She also is a PhD candidate preparing a dissertation on new monastic communities. With Rev. Israel we speak about the deeply secularized Amsterdam context and the ways in which the church still creates places of holiness and hospitality in the city. In particular, we discuss the creative ways in which the church uses its old sanctuaries as means of witness to the gospel – a challenge also for North American congregations that wonder what to do with their buildings.
https://www.rosalieneisrael.nl/ministry/

S1, E5: Church Planting in Amsterdam

In this episode we remain in Amsterdam, but this time focus on the work of church planting in such a highly secular context. David van der Meulen, also known as “dominee David’ (pastor David) or “the millennium pastor” (dubbed as such by a secular newspaper in Amsterdam) focuses his ministry on post-Christian successful millennials, who have no interest whatsoever in anything like religious faith. He tells about the “Master Classes” in which he has specialists address topics of concern for highly educated urban young adults and discussion groups in which believers and unbelievers read Scripture together. In his ministry he is inspired by the idea of the “court of the gentiles”: how do we created a sanctuary-adjacent space where those with religious faith and those without it might meet?
See also: https://vu.nl/en/stories/david-van-der-meulen-millennial-pastor

S1, E6: Being Church in the Frisian Countryside

Hinne Wagenaar studied theology in the Netherlands and at Union Seminary in New York, taught theology in Cameroon, but then returned to his roots in the Frisian countryside where he started a new worshipping community rooted in the old, Medieval church building in this farmer town with 350 inhabitants. This church plant grew into a monastic community that rebuilt the monastery that once had stood outside of town. With Rev. Wagenaar we speak about language and silence, the importance of speaking to God in our own mother tongue, and monastic life as a means of new missional outreach at the edge of church and secular society.
To see and read more about Nykleaster (“new monastery”), see: https://nijkleaster.frl/en/
For Hinne Wagenaar, see his essays in English: https://hinnewagenaar.frl/articles-english/

S1 E7: Being Church in Groningen

Pieter Versloot was a missionary in central-Asia, worked at the national offices of the Protestant Church in the Netherlands, and now is pastor of the Martini Church in Groningen, a church at the center of a small, Medieval city in the north of the Netherlands. In this traditionally-minded Protestant community he re-introduced the confessional as a means for missional outreach to a largely secular city. His church also makes its presence known through a “Trace of light,” a regular event in which the shopping public in the Groningen inner city is drawn into the church building through a path of candles, while organ music, more candles, and the possibility for conversation awaits them inside. With Pieter we talk about reclaiming traditional liturgical rituals for the sake of missional engagement.
https://wijkgemeente-martinikerk.nl

S1E8: Church, Art, and Secularity

While society might be secularizing, many are still drawn to the beauty of religious art. Over the last couple of decades, traditional Anglican Choral Evensong became very popular in the Netherlands. This is highly surprising, since the Netherlands is neither Anglican nor religious anymore. In this episode we talk to Hanna Rijken, who in cooperation with Oxford University studied the ways in which Choral Evensong reaches a secular audience. She tells us about her research and the ways in which it led to a new worshipping community rooted in the practice of choral singing in Utrecht.
Dr. Rijken’s research was published in: Hanna Rijken, ‘‘My Soul Doth Magnify’. The Appropriation of Anglican Choral Evensong in the Netherlands, Amsterdam: VU University Press, 2020.
 
See also:
https://www.pthu.nl/en/about-us/people/c.s.h.rijken/
https://www.hannarijken.nl

S1, E9: Secularization and Salvation

What is the unique thing we find in Christianity but nowhere else? Recent research among Dutch pastors and church planters revealed that while most of them would answer this question with “Jesus” – but that they find it difficult to express what difference he makes. Older soteriological models no longer seem to resonate; past language no longer feels life-giving or even feels somewhat embarrassing. Anecdotal evidence suggests this is not much different among North American church leaders. In this episode we speak about these questions with Jan Martijn Abrahamse, who was involved with the Dutch research project on these issues. Abrahamse studied theology in the Netherlands and the USA (Duke), was a Baptist pastor in the Netherlands, and currently is lector in theology.
https://christelijkehogeschoolede.academia.edu/JanMartijnAbrahamse
The research on salvation will be published in: Hans Schaeffer, Jan Martijn Abrahamse, Karen-Zwijne-Koning, and Stefan Paas, eds., Visions of the Good Life: Salvation, Church, and Mission in the Secular West. Leiden: Brill, 2025.
 
In the conversation, Abrahamse refers to a number of other books:
Rowan Williams, Christ The Heart of Creation.
James K.A. Smith, Desiring the Kingdom: Worship, Worldview, and Cultural Formation.
Clive Marsh, A Cultural Theology of Salvation.
Christian Smith, Soul Searching: The Religious and Spiritual Lives of American Teenagers.
Mircea Eliade, The Sacred and the Profane.
Richard Rohr, The Universal Christ.
Hartmut Rosa, Resonance.

S1, E10: Preaching within the Immanent Frame

How do you preach about God, eschatology, or salvation to people who have no sense of the transcendent at all? How do you introduce them to what the Christian faith is all about? This is not just a question relevant to those reaching out to the unchurched; the same challenge holds within the church. In this episode we speak with Kees van Ekris. He is a pastor, podcast maker, was elected “national theologian” in 2023, and wrote several books about preaching in a post-Christian world.  
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kees_van_Ekris